Seung-a Han: Can you share about your kimjang kimchi experience?

Eunhee Cho: When I was young, before I got married, I remember we had about 50 heads of cabbages. It usually happened in December. Back then, we salted the cabbages at home as well. We’d ask (the farmers) to bring a certain number of cabbages and buy the ingredients for the filling. We first prepared for the process by thoroughly cleaning the bathtub or a rubber bucket. Then we cut bigger cabbages into 4 parts and smaller ones into 2 parts, start salting them with coarse salt. I think we flipped the cabbages every 4-5 hours for the salt to be absorbed evenly. Next we washed them about 4-5 times. During this step we barely slept. Next day, while we drain the cabbages, we prepare the filling. We’d mix the shiitake mushroom (or dried pollack) broth, various salted seafood sauces, sliced radishes, red pepper powder, garlic, ginger to make the filling.

These days, we order salted cabbages from the farmlands. We make a reservation with a specific date and time. Since the cabbages so conveniently come salted, we just need to prepare the filling. But preparing those ingredients and mixing them would still take a whole day. Actually, I think it only took one day because the whole family helped me. My husband and two younger sons chopped all the vegetables and mixed them. My oldest son put the filling and filled four boxes worth of kimjang. Sometimes I think about buying kimjang kimchi but I oftentimes the cabbages and vegetables from the store-bought kimchi come from foreign soil. There is a reason for doing kimjang during the winter. Cabbages and radishes (often from Jeju-island) can be found during all four seasons but vegetables that went through the harsh winter wind don’t easily get softened, are fresher, and taste good all winter long. I think that’s why it’s difficult for me to give up on the winter kimjang kimchi. Each family has its own taste and I think it became some kind of family event or holiday. On the day you make kimjang kimchi, you gather and eat as a family. You make suyuk (boiled pork or beef slices) to eat with kimjang. I think that’s another reason why I can’t give up on it. Also, store-bought kimchi is never cheap. I think there is a notion of making memories together with your family.

SH: So your husband and sons helped you make kimjang kimchi this time. Was this the case in the past when you were younger as well?

EC: Back in the day, men (in my family) were involved in some parts of the process. For example, they would carry the cabbages and other vegetables or flip them. They also helped mixed the filling because the mixing part is extremely labor-intesive. So yes, I think men were involved partially, in parts that required a lot of strength. But it was primarily women’s work. Here, women refer to mothers-in-law, daughters-in-law, and some hired women workers. These women helped the process in exchange of lunch and some kimjang kimchi. This kind of exchange of labor was very common among women back then and I think it still is. Before my time, one household would usually do the kimjang and give it away to relatives. So they would make 200-300 heads of cabbages in one kimjang. I think it would’ve been much more exhausting. But maybe more fun?

SH: Speaking of expected gender roles in the kimjang kimchi making process, I am curious about your thoughts on today’s gender equality and roles in South Korea. Many people (in and out of South Korea) believe that sexism rarely exists anymore. However, there may be less everyday, blatant discrimination than before but systematically and legally so many things relating to women’s and children’s issues are still so outdated. For instance, sexual crimes (which the victims are overwhelmingly female) result in extremely short sentences and it is almost impossible for women to go back to the workforce after having children.

EC: South Korea’s culture (and values) are so deeply rooted in Confucianism and patriarchy. Things are much different now but I think we are in a transitional period. Women, not only men, also have such (Confucious and patriarchal) ideas deeply embedded in their awareness. So over time, women also internalized such ideas and values. I think there is a preference of men because of productivity. As you said earlier, men don’t need pregnancy breaks and other various reasons for leave of absence. There is a culture that chases after productivity and functions which makes it okay for men to leave home early and come back home late. On the other hand, I think there are some parts that women compromise as well. In order for (married) women to be as “productive” I think the family’s, especially husband’s support is vital. Now is the time of balancing and tuning the changes that have been taking place. So I think it’s important for women to make more noise but also to build capacity as well. I think things will change. They must. Our society’s system needs to change. We are in a transitional period and honestly I think we are only 20-30 % there.

SH: Yes, I agree. I think we still have a long way to go.

EC: In fact, I was so shocked to find out that women do not want women leaders. Our society is male-centric and women have been oppressed but as a result women don’t support women. I guess there are reasons for this and…. I think that things will change a lot during yours and my children’s time. It is a matter of shift in generations. Young people should hold onto (these good) beliefs and push forward. There might be older adults that are more open-minded and flexible but they have been influenced too much by the outdated beliefs and values so I think it’s really difficult to change them.

SH: Why do you think women don’t want women leaders?

EC: I think it’s because the values and beliefs (of Confucianism and patriarchy) still remain. Even if they say their values and beliefs are different, they still want the same kind of productivity and efficiency (just as the patriarchal society does). For instance, South Korea still doesn’t have the concept of child-rearing or education as something that mother and father engage together. Even young people today still have the influences of their mothers’ generations, almost as though they have been brainwashed. Even if they were taught that men and women are equal (at school), their everyday lives tell them otherwise. Men need to change but women also need to be aware of the internalized sexism.

SH: I read an article on how there is a rising number of South Korean men thinking that South Korea is a difficult place for men to live. It listed mandatory military service and pressure to be successful as primary reasons. It was pretty shocking to me.

EC: I think it is because the primary producers of culture are still the older generations. Values and beliefs indirectly (but definitely) get transmitted through culture. So even if your household is not (misogynist), because we live in the political, economic, cultural leaderships of older generations that are patriarchal and misogynist, many people naturally adopt them. Also, I think the fact that we are technically in the middle of a war and thus there is mandatory military service adds on to the confusion among the younger generations in their teens, 20s and 30s. So even if people think men and women are equal, because our system is still maintained as (patriarchal and misogynist), people still naturally adapt those ideas from them. Feminism is not a bad thing but because of a small number of extremists, feminism is criticized and dismissed as a whole. I think the older generations who are in the leadership positions often use the media to target feminism in order to enact their agenda and influence. So I think we really need a shift in generations. Things will change with time, right? I think we are so slow in following the (right, good) awareness.